[mnet-devel] Grid Of Trust -- pre-design

[Some Guy]

 --- Jim Dixon <jdd at dixons.org> wrote: 
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, [iso-8859-1] Some Guy wrote:

> > Company A requests a X bandwidth leased line to company Company B.
> > They both call up their providers and they take care of it.  The line
> > always supports X bandwidth even if other lines coming into the
> > company get flooded.  Now imagine automating this process to remove
> > the phone line and sharing one physical cable.  The main difference to
> > TCP: connections must be initiated on both ends.
> 
> This is a bit mystifying.  What are you sharing the physical cable with?
> You say there is a difference between something and TCP.  What is the
> something?  What process is being automated?
> 
> I think that you are probably trying to describe a standard service, a
> channelized circuit.  In Europe a 2M E1 will be sliced into 32 64K
> channels, which can be assembled into higher speed services, say one
> 128K circuit, two 64Ks, one 512K, and one 1M.  If you like you can run
> data over some circuits and voice over some others.  Is this what you
> are talking about?

Right.  Companies in the old days would lease actual independent physical lines.  The companies
selling these lines figuared out that they could run them on top of other physical networks.  So
we might sell 100 lines from London to Paris, but they might just go across one fiber for most of
the journey.  Now if two nodes in a P2P network could contact their ISP(s) and request a fixed
bandwidth connection between each other, they could set it up to where these connections ran
independently of normal Internet access.

> > > > > > The solution I see is for friends to build small cliques of nodes
> > > > > > which we can call "super nodes" which then act as a single node in the
> > > > > > described network.  If a super node has enough independent IPs so that
> > > > > > it could give out one to every neighbor, it would be safe against
> > > > > > floods.
> > > > >
> > > > > On the face of it, this just doesn't make sense.  Explain, please.  Just
> > > > > how can I loan my IP to the guy across the street?
> > > >
> > > > You and your 15 quake buddies decide to start a node.  One guy runs
> > > > the master and picks p and q and gives you guys N.  Everyone can take
> > > > a shot and calculating the hash cash.  Only the master need have the
> > > > private key though.  Then one of you bootstraps in using that
> > > > identity.  Every few neighbors you learn about are given a different
> > > > IP to connect to.
> > >
> > > Where do the IP addresses come from?  And why can't the bad guys just DOS
> > > the entire lot?  There are techniques for doing this that require very
> > > little bandwidth.
> >
> > The bad guys won't know more than 1 of the IPs of the super node.
> > Each super node talks to each other one over just 1 of its IPs.
> 
> But where do the IP addresses come from?

Each of my quake buddies has an internet connection at home where he runs his sub-node.  We can
all trust each other.  If they know one of our IPs because one of our neighbors was a spy, they
can flood him.  That shouldn't stop us from servicing our other neighbors.

> > > If I understand your scheme correctly, someone is going to have to acquire
> > > a routable CIDR block.  This is at the very least a /24, a block of 256
> > > addresses.  Those addresses have to be handled by a router.  That router
> > > has to have bandwidth to the Internet.  Who pays for all of this?
> >
> > No, I have a sub node at my place, and my buddy Bob has one at his.
> > We might have completely different ISPs.  I give my IP out to half the
> > of our nieghbors; he the other half.  If I get flooded, he'll still
> > function.
> 
> Then how do you talk to one another?

Over the internet!  Yes if one gets flooded it's dead ot the others.  So you may need some
redundancy.  All in all the supernode can keep running.  You could design a supernode to where
data was split up so 50% could be down and all data would be recoverable.  That's a good idea for
flaking home useres anyway.

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