[mnet-devel] Grid Of Trust -- pre-design

[Some Guy]

 --- Jim Dixon <jdd at dixons.org> wrote: 
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, [iso-8859-1] Some Guy wrote:
> 
> > > I think that you are probably trying to describe a standard service, a
> > > channelized circuit.  In Europe a 2M E1 will be sliced into 32 64K
> > > channels, which can be assembled into higher speed services, say one
> > > 128K circuit, two 64Ks, one 512K, and one 1M.  If you like you can run
> > > data over some circuits and voice over some others.  Is this what you
> > > are talking about?
> >
> > Right.  Companies in the old days would lease actual independent
> > physical lines.  The companies selling these lines figuared out that
> > they could run them on top of other physical networks.  So we might
> > sell 100 lines from London to Paris, but they might just go across one
> > fiber for most of the journey.  Now if two nodes in a P2P network
> > could contact their ISP(s) and request a fixed bandwidth connection
> > between each other, they could set it up to where these connections
> > ran independently of normal Internet access.
> 
> You are describing a service which has been available for decades.  This
> is how leased lines work.  When you get a leased line, this is what you
> get.  It's not cheap.

Yes, that's been around before internet access.  It has since been improved appon.  When I buy a
leased line from New York to London, they don't lay a seperate trans-Atlantic cable.  In fact they
can share the same physical medium with lots of other lines.  If I buy 50 of them going to
different offices they can all share the same physical line going into the main office along with
regular internet connectivity.  It's just a question of routing.  The bandwidth along the "leased
line" connections can be safe from flooding of the internet connection.

ATM is almost like what I'm asking for.  You can allocate a connection which will get certain
quality of service guarantees.  The only problem is that I can still be bombarded with connection
requests.  Which means they can flood you so that nobody can connect to you, but your current
connections will be safe.  The only perfect 100% way to solve the problem is to have connections
initiated from both sides, which requires out of bound communication.
 
Here's another fun idea, ISPs could give you a random set of IPs (with the new IP).  Each one
could get a fixed amount of bandwidth.  If an adversary couldn't guess all the IPs, you'd be safe.
 This is kind of like maintaining multiple mailboxes, so when one gets spammed up you know sold
your address out and you can just ignore all his mail.

Am I giving you any ideas here?

> > > > > Where do the IP addresses come from?  And why can't the bad guys just DOS
> > > > > the entire lot?  There are techniques for doing this that require very
> > > > > little bandwidth.
> > > >
> > > > The bad guys won't know more than 1 of the IPs of the super node.
> > > > Each super node talks to each other one over just 1 of its IPs.
> > >
> > > But where do the IP addresses come from?
> >
> > Each of my quake buddies has an internet connection at home where he
> > runs his sub-node.  We can all trust each other.  If they know one of
> > our IPs because one of our neighbors was a spy, they can flood him.
> > That shouldn't stop us from servicing our other neighbors.
> 
> I think that you fail to understand how Internet routing works.
> 
> Your subnode is going to have one (1) IP address.  You can hang up to 64K
> friends off of it in private IP address space, each on his own port, but
> they will all be sharing that same IP address in the global IP address
> space.  When someone decides to zap that IP address, you are all toast.

Jim, I sick of repeating it.  Each of my dozen friends is at a different house, maybe in the same
town.  We each have our own IPs, maybe even different ISPs.  If one gets flooded sure, he'll be
cut off from the world.  You want to keep thinking of in terms La Resistance; we're a cell. 
Though some of us may die La Resistance goes on (Southpark).

This cell, perhaps you perfer "cluster", can participate as a single node in Grid of Trust or
other P2P networks.  It has the power to give away only a few IPs at a time to minimize damage
that can be done to it by its neighbors.   This is your style of idea.

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